[Vicklaw]

I improved some of my RA records, nearly all with videos. Some of them became obsolete now since I had better scores now.

Is it possible to delete some of my videos from the list ? These videos are :

Sonic 3 -> Carnival Night 1 -> Rings -> Tails (596 Rings)
Sonic 3 -> Carnival Night 1 -> Rings -> Tails (765 Rings)

S&K -> Mushroom Hill 2 -> Rings -> Knuckles (645 Rings)
S&K -> Lava Reef 2 -> Rings -> Tails (458 Rings)

I will upload new videos which are Carnival Night 1 (Tails) 824 Rings and Lava Reef 2 (Tails) 461 Rings (yes, it's finally possibe) as soon as the submissions will be availabe again.

[Thorn]

^ We'll handle the deletions when the new videos are submitted so that something is visible in the meanwhile.

[SpinDashMaster]

(How did he end up with only 824?)

You should probably dig up my .giz file from in here. If you have the patience to get 824 you can tie me.

[SB737]

CN1 oh the lovely frame perfect jump, and the frustration of only having 9:59 <3

[SpinDashMaster]

That jump is not frame-perfect. I made it into an Emerald challenge once, and the submissions blew up to about 4 pages.

Is it difficult? Absolutely. But frame-perfect is not the word to use methinks; especially when you consider two things: 1) Missing the jump has 0 penalty, and 2) you can try the jump again as many times as you need if you miss.

9:59 allows a lot of time to reattempt that jump, so honestly, the easiest way to get a tie is to set up a run that is so efficient everywhere else that you maximize the amount of time you get to attempt that jump.

To aid in this strategy, I recommend clearing out as much as possible until that jump, then purposefully -not performing- the wheel jump, then clearing out the rest of the stage. Subtract your time from 9:59, and add 20 seconds for an error cushion. That's how much time you have for spending to attempting your wheel jump.

You should then save a state to the location of the wheel jump and practice it until you can get it consistently right.

Then just splice together your efficiency skill and your wheel-jumping practice and do fresh runs. If your wheel jumping gets rusty and you start missing runs because of it, go back to the prior paragraph before attempting again.

Unfortunately SCD is derelict so I can't link you to the thread, but I remember werster and I chatting about the mechanics of this jump in it.

First thing to note is the height of your jump before connecting to the wheel. This will impact your speed -- both coming into and jumping off the wheel. You then want to jump off the wheel just before hitting the 180 degree mark, and as you jump, hold ->.

Hope this info helps.

[Vicklaw]

I didn't saw the .giz because I use Fusion, which can only record unreadable .avi files, which must be converted to be read. So I didn't even know what was the strategy for CN1.

I only took 2 out of the 24 inaccessible Rings, I don't have the patience to get them all, because the jump is insanely hard and close to random. There's no method to follow to always succeed. If I take these Rings a day, I will get 846 Rings and beat the record. You have probably missed the 5 last Rings at the end of Sonic's area, you can take them if you Spindash through the barrier just before the boss.

I explained everything in the descriptions of the videos, if you want to watch them, click here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1co_7UMTflw -> CN1 (Sonic) 822 Rings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYtXJyJN6Z8 -> CN1 (Tails) 824 Rings

However, I don't know how to fix the grafical glitches.

I just have a question : Is it possible to take the 20 rings between the last big ring of Sonic's area and just before the boss then backtrack to Knuckles' area ?

[SpinDashMaster]

In the second video, I need you to tell me explicitly what is happening between 7:22 and 7:26 game time in Tails' video.

If you can do that without TAS you can do the wheel jump.

EDIT: I look forward to this reply. The only reason I never investigated that barrier further was the fact that I was told it was TAS-only.

[Vicklaw]

In the second video, I need you to tell me explicitly what is happening between 7:22 and 7:26 game time in Tails' video.

If you can do that without TAS you can do the wheel jump.

EDIT: I look forward to this reply. The only reason I never investigated that barrier further was the fact that I was told it was TAS-only.

I don't see what is wrong for you in this video except the grafical glitches. I did the Spindash trick to pass through the wall. (I press B and C, usually together to charge the Spindash a lot, I release everything, I hold down again, as soon as I touch the wall, I press C, release down and finaly press down, then C then release everything to pass through the wall)

This is not the first time I did this. Also, this wall and the barrier can both easily be passed with Hyper Sonic's double jump, which proves this can be done without TAS. And if I had TAS, all my runs will be much better than this.

[SpinDashMaster]

You've prematurely taken a defensive tone. I didn't accuse you of anything.

Read carefully: I was only aware of this being capable in TAS.

The fact that you can perform this live is astounding, I'm just asking how you do it, as this is the first I've heard of any sort of "Spindash Trick."

Following the exact same steps you've listed leads to over 40 tries with no success. There's got to be something missing here, because lightning seems to strike twice in your run, where you get two of these off on the first try each.

[Vicklaw]

If it does not look credible for you, I may not submit the records because I don't want to be banned, nor that everyone believe that I TAS. However, what is your strategy for Sonic, since you can't escape from Knuckles' area with him ?

[SpinDashMaster]

Again I'm not accusing you. I just think that's amazing.

As for my method with Sonic that I set many years ago, you're wrong. He can escape. A user here named eredani showed me how.

At the very beginning of the stage, I initiate Wheel Glitch to enter Knuckles' sector, as opposed to the bat lure method.

 (To activate this glitch, you need to walk into a series of balloons, touch the bottom of the wheel with three ring boxes underneath it, then land on those boxes. As a result, you'll end up with your character following gravity rules which most closely resemble Mad Space from SA2B. But be careful! Jumping disables the glitch.)

In my run, I cleared out everything in Knuckles' sector except for the area near the start which has a barrier and three rings behind it and the area near the second checkpoint, since you cannot jump back up from there.

(This, by the way, is why I am desperate to figure out your method. There's untapped potential here you're not seeing. I promise you I'm not accusing you, I just really need to know how to do what you're doing, because I know of like 50 places in other levels where this could be applied.)

As for returning to Sonic's home path, you have a launchpad of sorts, thanks to eredani. The main Knuckles route with all the candy-cane twists leads to an area with several bats. Up above that are a long series of anti-grav fans.

All you need to do is charge up a spindash early on in the path, convert your stance to running by doing a downhill jump where it's appropriate to do so without losing speed, then jump as the last curve before the fans starts to curve back to horizontal. With decent timing and angle of your jump (Doesn't have to be perfect), Sonic will pass to the right of the obstacle above him so he will continue going up without bumping into it. The fans will catch him and pull him up if you approach the fan perpendicularly.

A Lightning Shield will also help you accomplish this jump if you somehow fall short.

I then clear out all of Sonic's area, except for 25 rings: two boxes on a mutually exclusive path with the rest of Knuckles' sector, and a string of 5 rings just before the boss (which you are trying to show me how to collect).

I then return to Knuckles' sector using a double bat lure. After getting the bat from the path way to the left (an output point for a yellow spiral launcher), I lead him down a path near the next yellow spiral tube, with fans beneath it. I let it hit me, losing my shield. I then grab the lightning shield in the alcove to the left, and lead the bat to another set of fans -- this one leading to the remainder of Knuckles' sector.

I finish the stage in the Knuckles path.

[SB737]

tl;dr
Download gens+ and watch his giz

[SpinDashMaster]

I suck at video conversion. I need to get around to converting and uploading all those ring attack giz's.

[SB737]

Tbh SDM I've now performed and submitted to TSC 90% of the RAs of sonic 3 anyway, the only ones missing are the ones I haven't got round to/managed to do yet, uploading the RAs missing in video format would be useful to others tho.

[SpinDashMaster]

Maybe you could do me a huge favor and convert/upload mine for me :)

[Vicklaw]

Again I'm not accusing you. I just think that's amazing.

As for my method with Sonic that I set many years ago, you're wrong. He can escape. A user here named eredani showed me how.

At the very beginning of the stage, I initiate Wheel Glitch to enter Knuckles' sector, as opposed to the bat lure method.

 (To activate this glitch, you need to walk into a series of balloons, touch the bottom of the wheel with three ring boxes underneath it, then land on those boxes. As a result, you'll end up with your character following gravity rules which most closely resemble Mad Space from SA2B. But be careful! Jumping disables the glitch.)

In my run, I cleared out everything in Knuckles' sector except for the area near the start which has a barrier and three rings behind it and the area near the second checkpoint, since you cannot jump back up from there.

(This, by the way, is why I am desperate to figure out your method. There's untapped potential here you're not seeing. I promise you I'm not accusing you, I just really need to know how to do what you're doing, because I know of like 50 places in other levels where this could be applied.)

As for returning to Sonic's home path, you have a launchpad of sorts, thanks to eredani. The main Knuckles route with all the candy-cane twists leads to an area with several bats. Up above that are a long series of anti-grav fans.

All you need to do is charge up a spindash early on in the path, convert your stance to running by doing a downhill jump where it's appropriate to do so without losing speed, then jump as the last curve before the fans starts to curve back to horizontal. With decent timing and angle of your jump (Doesn't have to be perfect), Sonic will pass to the right of the obstacle above him so he will continue going up without bumping into it. The fans will catch him and pull him up if you approach the fan perpendicularly.

A Lightning Shield will also help you accomplish this jump if you somehow fall short.

I then clear out all of Sonic's area, except for 25 rings: two boxes on a mutually exclusive path with the rest of Knuckles' sector, and a string of 5 rings just before the boss (which you are trying to show me how to collect).

I then return to Knuckles' sector using a double bat lure. After getting the bat from the path way to the left (an output point for a yellow spiral launcher), I lead him down a path near the next yellow spiral tube, with fans beneath it. I let it hit me, losing my shield. I then grab the lightning shield in the alcove to the left, and lead the bat to another set of fans -- this one leading to the remainder of Knuckles' sector.

I finish the stage in the Knuckles path.

Thanks for you explanation. I never though this jump was doable, neither luring a bat to pass through 2 rows of gravity platforms... Also, did you try to use a bat to pass through the barrels like I did it for the barrier ? This will allow you to get the 5 rings you missed near the checkpoint without passing through the wall. I did it here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGLQvCQU6qY (Sonic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzGyc_YVwuo (Tails)

If you want to upload videos, you might use a recorder (like FRAPS or hypercam) if it doesn't slow down the emulator. You play the .giz and record it.

[SpinDashMaster]

I don't understand. How's that going to get me the five rings by the final checkpoint?

Or are you referring to the second checkpoint? (I should clarify: as Tails I can collect these, just not Sonic.)

At any rate I'd really like for you to explain the Spindash Glitch in the best detail you can, again not because I'm accusing you, but because you know something we don't about this, to such a degree that you are capable of consistently getting that right while all of us suck at it.

If we as a community can improve on that skill, then we stand on the brink of reshaping Sonic 3 yet again.

Please help us.

EDIT: Hey, by the way, I read your youtube comment with your theorem on the yellow spiral tubes.

THAT IS GENIUS. THANK YOU. I'll be using this next time I revise this run.

[SpinDashMaster]

I did the Spindash trick to pass through the wall. (I press B and C, usually together to charge the Spindash a lot, I release everything (Spindash 1), I hold down again, as soon as I touch the wall, I press C, release down (Spindash 2) and finaly press down, then C then release everything (Spindash 3) to pass through the wall)

Looks like this is all I'm going to get from you (I saw you login 4 times and read the prior post). According to this description, you're spindashing a total of three times: once to start up and two at the wall.

But the video only seems to sound like you spindashed just twice.

[TimpZ]

A few things I find weird about his description of how to pass through objects:

Pressing 2 spindash buttons on the same frame does nothing more than pressing a single button. Some form of piano rolling movement is the only possible way to gain enough speed (out of the possible 8 speeds you can get from a spindash I think only the top 2 allows this trick to work on flat ground but don't quote me on that).

The purpose of the second spindash is to manipulate the camera to get the object offscreen but this is mentioned nowhere. Also the timing for the third spindash differs depending on how fast you're going and how quickly you did the 2nd one after hitting the wall but that's not mentioned either.

Lastly, this is a very precise trick 7½ minutes into a 9 minute ring attack. To increase consistency he should've gone to the top of the hill so he could get more speed and thus have a larger window for the other spindashes but he stayed on the bottom.

[SpinDashMaster]

But that's disturbing because on top of all this, everything in his video from the time he hit the wall until the time he passed through it is happening in a mere 6 frames in Youtube time.

His video is 30fps, so that means he had 12 frames, or 0.2 seconds, to perform two spindashes. Not gonna lie, that does look suspicious, especially considering what TimpZ just said about the timing constraints for the maneuver.

Vicklaw, an explanation from you on the matter would be really nice right about now.